‘Difficult to entirely preserve a dynamic,growing city’

V Ranganathan: Historically in India,we had only one mechanism for the preservation of particularly built heritage that is the Ancient Monuments Preservation Act of 1904. Under this Act,the Archaeological Survey of India and the State Archaeology Department take care to see that monuments are preserved,their life is enhanced and periodic repairs and restoration work undertaken. In 1995,Maharashtra was the first state in the country and Mumbai the first city in India to bring forth the heritage regulations. These serve to protect the heritage of the city irrespective of whether it is owned publicly or privately,and the regulations formed here served as a model for other states. In terms of public buildings,heritage regulations impose obligations to preserve on authorities. In case of private heritage buildings,private individual and corporate owners must be enticed as preservation places a certain burden of responsibility. Similarly when building infrastructure roads,we have to see that the process of development is not obstructed.

This is how we should look at it — to strike a balance between development,enjoying individual property rights and preserving heritage — otherwise the future generations will lose all their history.

Stuti Shukla: As per estimates by UDRI,about 30 per cent of these proposed structures have already been demolished or are about to be. After 2005,have there been any inspections on the structures proposed in the new list?

VR: Six years ago,the technical group presented its list,which went to the MHCC thereafter. Since then,the list has gone through various processes that took their own time to get it published – the MHCC has not been in the picture at all after submitting it to the Corporation.

Dipti Sonawala: What is MHCC doing to help owners of private heritage structures?

VR: Today,we only have a provision for Transferable Development Rights,that is,if a building is to be developed its FSI can be used elsewhere. A few years ago,a committee had submitted a report to the government suggesting various incentives for private owners. It includes widening the scope of TDR,use for private structures for commercial purposes,property tax rebates and so on. This is now under the consideration of the government.

sagnik chowdhury: You spoke of how these buildings were identified. At the time,was any effort made to gauge public reaction?

VR: That is being done now.

Sharvari Patwa: Grade Three structures can go for redevelopment so they are basically out of the shield. So how will heritage precincts be preserved?

VR: The government has issued a notification that for heritage precincts and structures — Sections 33 (7),(8),(9),(10) of the Development Control Regulations can be used for assessing which Grade Three structures can be redeveloped. In the case of heritage precincts,they were designed keeping in mind a cityscape. Redevelopment should be allowed when required but while doing it,it is desirable to preserve the harmony of the precinct.

Stuti Shukla: In the MHCC,many decisions are based on the subjectivity of the members. Do you think this is positive because it leaves scope for flexibility or should the guidelines decided be black and white?

VR: I cannot comment on the workings of the committee but the regulations lay down certain guidelines when they are applied in individual cases. Basically expert architects go to the place,they find the unique features of the area and assess how development and repairs can be carried out to preserve them.

Even if the owner wants to change the use from residential to commercial — without blocking the rights of the owner,we look at how we can preserve heritage. Every proposal for modification is physically inspected. We also give the owner an opportunity to present their point of view.

Stuti Shukla: With regard to the ongoing controversy over the new list,there is no clarity on what can be done and cannot be done to the structures under various grades. How does the community deal with that?

VR: A process of public education is required. Originally,the heritage regulations when formulated primarily covered South Mumbai structures focusing mainly on colonial architecture. Over a period of time,people here have gotten used to it and owners have accepted it,They go to the committee with their proposals for change and present it in a manner in which the committee accepts it. They have adapted to the constraints. In the new list too,things will develop over time — with education,people will get used to it.

Sagnik Chowdhury: The TDR and tax sops are being proposed as incentives. But you spoke about a corpus of funds that was proposed. Is this for the upkeep of the buildings or for compensatory payment?

VR: This is a proposal suggested to the government for the maintenance of heritage buildings. Sometimes,owners do not have funds for maintenance,especially tenanted properties. I think there should be a rebate on property tax for such properties,in addition to a heritage fund for maintenance.

Manasi Phadke: How long does the committee take to give approval for any heritage proposal?

VR: Normally,any proposal for reconstruction is submitted to the building proposal or department of the BMC. The committee also receives the proposal and there is usually a site visit. The owner is told about the changes needed. Most of the redevelopment proposals also involve architects who have experience of such heritage redevelopment proposals. So typically a proposal takes three-four months to get passed. At present,there is a backlog of 75-80 proposals.

Alison Saldanha: There are some structures that have been on the heritage list for many years but are not well maintained.

VR: Ultimately,we will have to ensure maintenance and conservation of both the old and new additions. There is no system of suo motto inspection of heritage buildings. If a person does not come to the committee for repair and reconstruction of heritage structure,the committee will not know about it. We have to develop a mechanism wherein structures are inspected regularly and in case they are not maintained,properly notice is given.

Shivani Naik: Which is the ugliest structure in the city today?

VR: I won’t be able to answer this question unless I take a tour of the entire city and have a look at all the structures.

Sandeep Singh: The MHCC does not have a website of its own. Any plans to construct one soon?

VR: We use the BMC website to upload important public documents. But yes,we can and should develop our own website with comprehensive information of heritage sites,proposed sites and so on.

Swatee Kher: In the wake of opposition by residents of Shivaji Park against the proposed grade I heritage tag for the precinct,will the committee stand by its recommendation?

VR: All the public objections and suggestions in this regard are being received by the BMC. After the month-end,they will be compiled by the BMC and a report sent to the state government. The MHCC will not be aware of the suggestions for modification,deletion and so on.

Stuti Shukla: Doesn’t MHCC have the right to go through the suggestions and objections?

VR: As the list is published by the BMC,only the BMC can invite suggestions and send them to the state government which will take a final call while finalising the list. MHCC presented this list to the BMC six years after which the various processes were gone through.

Bharat Sundaresan: Do you think that the MHCC should have more powers?

VR: Legally speaking,MHCC is a recommendatory body. It makes recommendations of what needs to be listed and the state takes a final call.

Sharvari Patwa: But there are committees such as the high-rise committee that have powers to approve or disapprove.

VR: At present,after recommendations are made by the committee,for reasons to be recorded in writing,the municipal commissioner can take a decision which is at variance with our recommendations. But I don’t think that normally happens.

Sharvari Patwa: Do you think worried builders are behind the opposition to proposed gradation of Shivaji Park because it is a lucrative redevelopment market?

VR: I would not know about this.When change is proposed,it is human nature to be apprehensive. In 1995,too,some people would have felt this and later got used to it.

Mayura Janwalkar: Mumbai cannot run away from redevelopment. How much longer can we preserve these structures when vertical growth is inevitable?

VR: Having tall,new structures in close proximity to heritage structures is likely to happen in Mumbai because of space crunch and value of land. We can try and ensure it does not come so close to them that it affects their fabric. If there is a private heritage building and its adjacent plot is not heritage,the latter’s owner is likely to construct whatever he wants,unless it is a heritage precinct. It is a dynamic,growing city so you cannot preserve it entirely. Thus,places such as old gaothans are marked as precincts so that at least the aesthetics of such areas are preserved.

(Transcribed by Stuti Shukla)