Shakun Batra interview: Gehraiyaan director gets intimate about his process, airs complex feelings about Woody Allen

Excerpts from the conversation, mildly edited for brevity and clarity:

Hi Shakun, how are you? How is the world treating you? Thank you for taking the time…

Hey, man. Thank you for taking the time for me. This is the time we anyway set out for promotions, so I’m doing nothing else. This is what I’ve been doing. Feeling good, we delivered the film literally last night*. So, I’m nervous, I’m excited, and I’m looking forward to how the world receives the film.

*This interview was conducted on January 27

That’s kind of cutting it close, though? Last night?

We’ve all obviously seen the film, we know what it is. But the technical stuff was going on, the VFX shots had to come in, the final sound mix had to come in. So, those are the things. The movie’s been locked for a while.

But the trailer looks really good. I’m sure a million people have told you this, it feels like a huge creative leap. It looks incredible, but that’s just a superficial reading of the trailer. But also feels like you’ve matured, in a way…

How sweet, thank you.

You’re relying on tone, on atmosphere, and obviously very heavily on your actors, as well. Do you want to talk about how this film is an evolution for you as a filmmaker?

Thank you, those are very kind words, and I’m feeling the pressure already. The idea is to let a movie help you grow. We all want to, I want to grow constantly. And a movie can do that to you, if you jump into it with the right intention and the right mindset. So yes, I wanted to learn more, I wanted to try more, I wanted to try newer tone. You’re right, tone is a very important part of what excites me about a film, and with every film, and every story, you do get a chance to try something slightly newer, slightly different. For me, that’s always the beginning point.

Story, yes, I wanted to jump into taking characters who were a tad bit more complex, situations that were a tad bit more complicated. And I do hope we’ve managed to do justice to that. Hopefully, all your expectations will be met.

In terms of how you work on set, would you say that’s changed as well? In terms of how you handle actors, for instance.

I would say that with every film, with every kind of tone, there is a certain amount of work that changes. But broadly speaking, no. My process doesn’t change in terms of how I go into readings, and workshops, or how I work on set in terms of blocking, all of that stays the change. It’s the visual style that you want to change. With that, your coverage changes a bit, your edit style changes a bit. With the story, of course, what’s the intensity of the scene, and how you arrive at that intensity with your actors, you evolve into that process. It’s not something that I’ve constantly jumped in to change. I have let myself organically arrive at things to make sure we can come to the most authentic representation of what was on the page.

But, as I said, the visual style was something that I was hoping to change with this film, because a lot of this film is about what is not being said, and I wanted to observe what these people are thinking, without me ever saying it out loud. So, the observation in this film, visually, was the part that I was most excited about.

You were talking about blocking, and it feels like there’s more spontaneity, even if it is blocked. Your camera is moving around the characters, and it’s lingering on them when they’re silent, which is very unusual for mainstream Hindi cinema. Because the tendency is just to fill in all the gaps with information…

Right.

Because you lose the audience, I guess is the fear? That’s very noticeable in the trailer, do you want to talk about how you approached those scenes?

The only way to observe, is to observe the in-between. Because when people are talking, your attention is on the dialogues. You’re absolutely right, in terms of shooting and in terms of editing, you are looking for the imperfect moment where you catch something. That’s always the effort. And to make things look fluid, a lot of work goes into hiding the effort, so it can look fluid. The fluidity is the by-product of making sure you’ve done the ground work and the homework right. It’s something you arrive at after quite a bit of hard work from every department, and not the other way around. The fluidity doesn’t come from being spontaneous or impromptu. Of course, you want to leave room for that. It’s a little bit of both. It’s about planning well so that everyone has room to play.

Deepika Padukone and Siddhant Chaturvedi on the set of Gehraiyaan. (Photo: Shakun Batra/Instagram)

How many takes would you do, ballpark?

As you know, I already have a reputation for being a very efficient director (laughs)! I can get into a place where I can do multiple takes, as you know. The idea is not to repeat. I’m very ambitious, and I love to see my actors go into places where they haven’t been before. And sometimes, that doesn’t happen on take five or take six. I heard a (David) Fincher interview that really changed my take on things, made me feel more explorative. You shoot a film, there are so many people who come in, you put them up in hotels. There are lakhs of rupees being spent every day. You don’t want to do all of that to go home early. You really want to make sure that you’ve arrived at something that feels authentic. And the actors I work with, they’re all workhorses. They want to get to the honest truth of that moment. And sometimes, that takes time.

Yes, just like every other movie set, we shoot 12 hour days. We don’t go above 12 hours. The difference is, in those 12 hours, I try to prioritise more takes and more coverage, whereas some directors would take an hour to set up a shot, and I would take 15 minutes to set up a shot and spend the rest of the time doing more takes. It’s just how you prioritise. Your day doesn’t change.

I remember that Fincher interview, and he’s obviously someone who’s famous for doing multiple takes. 99, was that the record?

Yes, exactly. It’s so funny that you’re saying this, and it’s not just Fincher. There are so many other directors…

But my larger question is, why do think, mainly here, doing more takes is looked down upon? Like it’s a sign of unprofessionalism or being unprepared, or being untalented? People applaud ‘one take artists’ as if that is the ideal, but it’s not, right?

(Laughs) Yeah, absolutely. And I want to know this, and I know this is a bigger conversation, but if you’ve only done one take, how do you know what else was possible? Then that means you were extremely set in your ideas. What’s most exciting to me about stepping onto a shooting floor is to explore. The magic is in a moment which you didn’t expect. It depends on the intention you step onto set with. If the intention is to get what you want, then you can get it on take one and everyone will be happy. I have no problem with that point of view. My intention is different. I want to be surprised. I want to see where my actors can go. Sometimes, yes, your best take is take number five but you’ve attempted 10. It’s just a process, it’s not a science. You have to know why you’re doing it, and on my set, as much as we pull each other’s legs on takes and all those things, people want to explore. That’s how I want to work, and I’m so fortunate that I can do that. I take that with gratitude, and I don’t think I misuse that opportunity.

Deepika Padukone and Siddhant Chaturvedi in a promotional still for Gehraiyaan. (Photo: Shakun Batra/Instagram)

Speaking of things that a layperson would not pay attention to, you had an intimacy director on set, do you want to talk about how they worked on set?

100%, and you’re absolutely right, that’s not their job, that’s not what they buy a ticket for. They just want to be immersed, and not be thrown off. That’s happened to me, where you see intimacy in a film that’s been done in such a shocking way, it throws you out of the story, because not enough prep has gone into those moments. My job—and I was really scared about it—was to not let the intimacy stick out. I wanted it to be a part of the story, and an extension of the emotion that these characters were feeling. And hence, it was very crucial for me to encourage this new system which I was reading about in the West. I really wanted to bring that reform here.

So, I brought in my dear friend Dar Gai, who’s a really amazing storyteller, and she’d done a couple of videos where she’d done real intimacy stuff. We also got Neha Vyas to come in and do intimacy workshops, which are no different from trust-building exercises. You want to define boundaries, you want to have an understanding of consent. You want to see what makes an actor comfortable. You want to make sure that every person has a say in how we were going to do this, because it’s very important for actors who are going to be a part of intimacy to feel emotionally and mentally comfortable, and be vulnerable in front of the camera. When an actor is giving you that much access, you have to respect it. And you have to create a system and an environment that is respectful of their hard work.

Shakun, you’ve spoken in many interviews about being a fan of Woody Allen. Personally I stopped watching his movies… Cafe Society was the last one I watched…

Same. I understand the complexity of these emotions. I don’t think any of us can go back in time and erase the film’s we’ve seen. At some level, they’re going to stay a part of our subconscious. The bigger debate does become about the art and the artist. Yes, there is no way that one is trying to be pro-Woody Allen. Having said that, it would be hypocritical if I was to all of a sudden behave like I’ve never seen those films. I saw those films while growing up, and at that point, they did influence and inspire me. Do I want to defend? No, I don’t want to defend. Do I feel sad about what has happened? I am disappointed. But at the same time, I don’t want to be a hypocrite a say I never liked him. It is disappointing for a fan. I am not somebody who has a long list of people who I’ve admired and put on my list… It’s tough to go back and revisit those films. My heart goes out to all the people who were involved in that complex situation.

I agree.

Let’s live with it. There’s the cognitive dissonance, that we can live with two completely different thoughts in your head, and understand both of them equally and accept them equally. I see the darkness of what has happened, and I accept that. And I also accept that there was a time when I saw these films, and they left a mark on me.

Before I let you go, when we spoke last, you said that your next project would be the Sheela series. What’s the update on that one?

For the last few months, I haven’t had the time to sit on anything. My attention has been on making sure that the film was ready. It’s a story extremely close to my heart. I don’t know the timing of it. I don’t know if it’s next, or if it’s the one after that. I don’t have clarity on that yet, but I’m looking forward to a vacation after this, where I can be with my thoughts and ask myself what I want to jump into next. That story is very special, and it’s something that I hope to tell one day.

Gehraiyaan will be released on Amazon Prime Video on February 11.