Pradyot Debbarma: ‘BJP only understands the language of a counter-movement, once they see it won’t bow to muscle power, they succumb’

You have been touring Tripura extensively. What is your reading two days ahead of the election?

The people of Tripura have actually made up their mind and they are not happy with the present government, whether it is the tribals or Bengalis.

Do you foresee a hung Assembly?

I do foresee that the CPI(M) or the BJP will not cross the halfway mark. That I definitely foresee. But whatever the final verdict may be, the numbers of the BJP will drastically fall. There are chances of a fractured mandate, but that’s not because the TIPRA is doing badly, that’s because the other established parties are completely decimated in many parts of the state.

Union Home Minister Amit Shah has been saying at rallies that you have an understanding with the Communists.

Amit Shah’s speechwriter has not done his homework. Whoever his speech writer is should be terminated. The Communist party has been against our (royal) family. So to even suggest that we are in an alliance with the Communists is something unpalatable and shocking to say the least. But then Amit Shah has been making a lot of statements recently and I don’t blame him for it, as Tripura is a very small state and he is very busy in Delhi and his feedback from the state has not been truthful to him. Because he also says there is a lot of development, employment generation, the state is progressing very well, all of which don’t seem to touch a chord with the people of Tripura.

Like your family’s equation with the Left, the Congress has also been its arch rival in the state in the past. But they are in an alliance now.

The Congress and the Communists came together a long time ago. It happened in 1977 and 1989. Then they came together in 2003. They came together in Bihar, West Bengal, Assam. And the post-Indira Gandhi era in the Congress has seen a significant shift towards the Left, which clearly indicates that the Congress is not serious about taking on the Left in states like West Bengal or Tripura. The BJP tied up with the PDP (in Jammu and Kashmir) despite having huge ideological differences. The Congress is still in alliance with the Shiv Sena (in Maharashtra), which is diametrically opposite when it comes to their views. National parties often take decisions to suit their immediate political interests rather than the well-being of their dedicated workers.

Do you think Left votes will get transferred to the Congress, or Congress votes to the Left?

I think that in West Bengal, the Left vote went to the Congress, but the Congress votes did not go to the Left. And, in any case, 80% of those in the BJP today are from the Congress. So it will be very interesting to see if the Congress votes go to the Communists.

When it comes to your core demand for a Greater Tipraland, is it about a separate state or it need not be a territorial break-up?

We want political separation, and if that can be achieved without a geographical break-up, no problem. But the formula has to be set. And to set that formula, you have to invite people and initiate a transparent process. Let’s see how it happens, but if that formula is not set, then obviously there are different provisions in Parliament and the Constitution to ask for Articles 2 and 3 (enabling addition of a new state, or carving out of another).

What do you mean by political separation?

It means total political independence from the state government when it comes to the management of economic affairs, land rights, enforcement rights, the land holding systems, language and redistribution of wealth. This has been inequitable vis-a-vis the TTAADC (Tripura Tribal Areas Autonomous District Council) and the state government. So there are many facets and there are enough statutes in the Constitution where you can amend and work out something which is a workable solution. That’s why I have been saying a Constitutional solution, over and over again.

So you are suggesting that the TTAADC be further strengthened?

No, I am saying that the TTAADC itself is not capable of determining the future of the tribals. You can come out with a new Act, a new amendment, a new law for the state of Tripura so that the tribals and the people, Bengalis, Muslims, Manipuris, people living in the TTAADC, have a better future.

You said that you are not averse to supporting either the Left or the BJP if your demand is accepted in writing. These two parties represent diametrically opposite ideologies. Does ideology not matter to you at all?

Ideology matters to me personally. But it does not matter to people who are hungry. It does not matter to a mother who cannot give her child basic food in the morning. It does not matter to a son who takes his father to the hospital but dies halfway through the journey because the bridge which connects the hospital to the village is broken. Ideology is very comfortable for people who are living in Khan Market, India Habitat Centre and convention centres. It matters to me personally, and that’s why I never joined the BJP and that’s why I stand for secularism and inclusiveness. But it is very rich of me to go and give this lecture to the poor, affected people who are dying of hunger, who do not get basic education, who do not have proper sanitation, who have to struggle day to day to come up in society and in life. For them ideology is obviously secondary and survival is the most immediate necessity of life.

Are you open to giving outside support to the Left-Congress alliance in the event of a hung Assembly? The BJP has ruled out any possibility of accepting your demand.

Until we are given in writing an assurance on our solution, we will sit outside the government. On providing outside support, we will have to wait and watch as we can come to government on our own. So that’s a hypothetical question. And secondly, the BJP has not ruled out anything. The BJP cannot say it because the Constitution says there is a possibility. Himanta Biswa Sarma, who is the Chief Minister of Assam, is not the BJP. He cannot take a decision on behalf of Tripura.

The BJP had also ruled out any negotiation on the farm laws. But they had to go down on their knees and repeal those laws. So the BJP only understands the language of a counter-movement, and once they see that they cannot overcome it through their own muscle power or propaganda machine, they eventually succumb to it. History has shown that.

Some suggest that you faced threats and intimidation to force your hand and make you join an alliance with the BJP.

People who threaten and intimidate are bullies. I will never be bullied. They can do that to only weak people. I am not weak. I have the support of lakhs and lakhs of my poor people and I come from a family which has always defended its land through dignity and pride. And I am every inch a warrior in that true sense.

You have also come out with a manifesto. What are its highlights?

So we are also the first indigenous party to come out with a manifesto; generally, regional parties in Tripura never came out with a manifesto. It is very inclusive and touches all aspects of life. We have got policies on health, education, tourism, employment generation and we have also, for the first time, come out with a separate policy on wildlife protection, animal protection. And we have also come out with a clear policy on LGBTQ people, because I believe they are very much a part of our society and while India accepts and celebrates eunuchs during weddings and other functions, we also tend to mock people who have preferences towards the same sex and LGBTQ people in general. We want them to get integrated in society and feel as comfortable and free to exercise their democratic rights as any one of us.