In October, you completed one year of government. Does it come off easier on your tongue now, to say that you are Chief Minister of the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir?

I find it very difficult to use the words Union Territory and Jammu & Kashmir in the same sentence. I hate being reminded that we are a UT. I don’t remember ever being introduced as the Chief Minister of the State of Jammu & Kashmir when I was, so why should I be introduced as the Chief Minister of the Union Territory of Jammu & Kashmir, unless you are trying to drill it into us that we are a Union Territory?

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah in conversation with The Indian Express National Opinion Editor Vandita Mishra at the Express Adda in New Delhi on Wednesday. (Express photo by Renuka Puri)

There is a constant comparison drawn between your government vs LG and how the situation was in Delhi. While you have been Chief Minister of a full State, Arvind Kejriwal always had to contend with a powerful LG. Also, Kejriwal got into this power sharing arrangement with a confrontational approach. Yours has been much more conciliatory. One year on, do you think the change of approach has led to a different outcome?

In terms of the relationship between the government of J&K and the government of India, other than a couple of major issues on which we haven’t made as much progress as I would have liked, particularly on the restoration of statehood, the government of India has been well disposed towards the government of J&K. So no complaints there. Unfortunately, the same has not been true in terms of our relationship with the LG, in spite of the fact that he has publicly said that he is only responsible for law and order and security. That has not translated on the ground. I can name institutions that should ordinarily have transferred to the elected government but haven’t so far.

When incidents like Delhi (Red Fort blast) keep happening, it is difficult to imagine a normalisation of relations between India and Pakistan. I am an advocate of dialogue but in creating conditions conducive for dialogue, the onus doesn’t just rest on India

Can you give some examples of things you wanted to do but couldn’t?

The J&K Power Development Corporation. I am the power minister. It is a corporation that is part of the ministry but the LG is the chairman. I was chairman of the corporation when I was the CM. We have two universities — Baba Ghulam Shah Badshah University and Islamic University of Science and Technology — where the statutes meant that the CM was chancellor. After the elections, these universities should have been transferred to the elected government. He continues to be the chancellor. He is the chairman of the cultural academy even though the culture department is with the elected government. He has appointed an IAS officer as Director Information even though the post is a J&K Administrative Services cadre post. I am the tourism minister. The tourism development authorities in various places should either be headed by me or somebody nominated by me but he continues to hold on even to tourism development authorities.

 

You make a distinction between your equation with the government at the Centre and with the LG. Does the distinction hold, given that the LG is the Centre’s appointee?

To the extent that he is doing this with their concurrence, that is a worry but I am drawing the distinction because in most other respects, the government of India has left me with limited scope to complain. We are an economically disadvantaged part of the country. It would be easy for the Centre to bring my government to its knees. All they had to do was choke our funds at the end of the year. But they gave more money at the end of last year than was part of the budget. And I have hope and expectation that the same thing will be done this year.

Dr Dalbir Singh, National Secretary, INC

But the big issue is statehood and on that they’ve kept you hanging.

It is a matter of disappointment. We keep being told that it will come at the appropriate time but nobody tells us how they will assess what the appropriate time is. Is the appropriate time when the BJP is in power in J&K? If that’s the case, be honest. My point is that the Supreme Court, Parliament and the people of India were told that this is a three-step process of delimitation-election-statehood. Two steps have been completed. Why are we being made to wait for the third step?

Is this something you have raised with the Centre?

There has not been a public occasion with the PM or a senior minister of the government of India where statehood has not been mentioned. My three newly elected Rajya Sabha members from J&K went and met the Union home minister and one of the things they talked about was statehood and the answer we got is, ‘Yes, it’s happening.’ But publicly, they say at the ‘appropriate’ time. If I have to be told that, then please give me a target so I can work towards it.

Omar Abdullah with Mani Shankar Aiyar, Jatin Das and other guests at Express Adda. (Express Photo by Tashi Tobgyal)

Your critics have said that you have not been assertive enough vis-à-vis the LG and the Centre… that you have normalised the disempowerment.

If I had to be part of the disempowerment, then I would have sat here and smiled and told you that everything is great. The fact that I haven’t done that would suggest that it is not business as usual and I am not silent on the issues that are of concern to the people.

The government of India is led by the BJP that has a project of nationalism, with a particular view on the representation of minorities. This is a government that doesn’t have a single Muslim MP. Do you worry about what it means for Indian pluralism?

All of us should worry about these things. An India where an elected CM (Nitish Kumar) can pull off the face covering of a young woman on a whim and not face any blowback is deeply distressing. Would he do that to a woman with a ghunghat? It is symbolic of the transformation you are talking about and it is not a good thing.

Hotelier Deepak Sarin with wife and author Rekha Sarin

Do you think the people of Kashmir have moved on from the moment of abrogation of Article 370?

If by acceptance you mean that people aren’t coming out on the streets every day and protesting against it, that’s true, they are not. But does that mean that they have willingly accepted the changes? No. If they had, then the BJP and the parties associated with the BJP would have done significantly better in the assembly elections. The fact is that the seats in the Valley went primarily to the National Conference or its ally, the Congress, and a handful of seats to the PDP.

How would you characterise people’s mood in Kashmir?

To suggest that there is one uniform thought process across the Valley would be to simplify a complex situation. There is a constituency that doesn’t accept J&K as part of India. There’s a constituency that happily identifies itself with the BJP and then there’s a large group in the middle that is deeply unhappy with the change that was made but also knows that there is no short-term solution. The only thing they can do is hope for the best in the days ahead.

Do you worry about radicalisation?

I think radicalisation in certain quarters is a reality. We saw it play out in the blast in Delhi. Look at the way in which the BJP reacts to things in J&K. You have a medical college that is part of the Mata Vaishno Devi University. Admission to that college is on the basis of the NEET exam. Out of 50 students, 40 plus turned out to be Muslims, one Sikh and six or seven Hindus. The BJP was up in arms. ‘Ye mata ka paisa hai, ye in logo pe kyun lagega.’ These children qualified on the basis of merit. But you want their seats to be decided on religious grounds. Look at the storm on the composition of the football team for the Santosh trophy because the majority of the players selected happened to be Kashmiri Muslims.

Student leader Nasir Khuehami

After the Red Fort blast, there was bulldozer action against the family home of the suspect. You spoke out against it. The Supreme Court has spoken against what is called ‘bulldozer justice’, a form of collective and instant punishment. There has also been anecdotal evidence and reports about educated Kashmiris finding it more difficult to find houses on rent in other parts of the country.

I wish this was just a reaction to the Red Fort blast but it is not. We’ve been hearing these sort of things for many years now. I have nephews who are studying outside of J&K. They have struggled to find PG accommodation. I know for a fact that in a part of the NCR, orders were issued asking for Muslim employees to be identified in corporations and businesses operating there. The wording of the order was even more worrying. It said foreign nationals and Kashmiri Muslims. You’re effectively saying that they are in the same category. You are pushing an entire community to the sidelines. About bulldozer justice, you did the same thing after the Baisaran attack earlier this year. About 10 homes were blown up. Subsequently, you found out that there was no Kashmiri involvement barring one person who helped them. Now there are 10-12 people, if one of them goes across and gets training, whose fault is it?

After the Pahalgam attack, you held a special session of the assembly that was unprecedented. Why?

It was a dastardly attack. How does your blood not boil? I wanted the people in the rest of the country to know that this is not something that the people of J&K identify with. Before our assembly session, the people had come out on their own to express solidarity. The assembly session was unprecedented, so was the reaction of the common people of J&K. You had people coming out and lighting candles, saying this was not in our name. Our assembly session was a continuation of that.

Filmmaker Meera Dewan with Nidhi Razdan

With bulldozer action, do you think that moment has been frittered away?

If I were to say that, it would sound almost transactional. We did what we felt was right. God forbid something like that were ever to happen again, we would do it again regardless of whether your bulldozers come after that and blow up our homes.

You have been candid about your disappointments with the INDIA Alliance. You have spoken about irregular meetings; most recently, on the Congress’ campaign of vote chori.

The Congress is free to choose its own political issues. My political philosophy and ideology centre on the restoration of autonomy to J&K and about what happened on August 5, 2019. These are issues that none of my INDIA Bloc partners will share at this point, barring perhaps the DMK and possibly the TMC. Therefore, if the Congress wants to make a public campaign out of vote chori and the SIR, why not?

Where do you stand on vote chori?

If by vote chori,you mean the machines are fiddled with, I don’t support that. My belief is we should own the defeat and work towards correcting it. If we blame the machine, then nothing will ever go right.

In its campaign, the Congress has targeted the EC, saying that it is in cahoots with the Modi government to steal elections. Do you agree with the campaign?

You are up against a government that uses these bodies to its advantage. How can you not take them on? The EC is supposedly an independent body. There’s no smoke without fire. Now how large a fire it is, that is debatable but something is not right.

Where do you think the obstacles lie in the INDIA alliance being more coherent than it is?

The lack of clarity as to why we are there, because I have heard confusing views on that. One, that we are only there for the General Election. But if we are there in the interim also, then we need to make it work when elections take place even at the state level. We don’t seem to be able to do that. The election campaign wasn’t as difficult as the seat-sharing talks within the alliance. I lost more hair in the conversation with the Congress than I lost in selecting my own candidates and then in campaigning for them to win.

As someone who could be described as one of Macaulay’s children, how do you look at the decolonisation campaign that the BJP has now launched?

This was a country that welcomed everybody. Somewhere that India still exists. We need to protect it. There was a reason why a Muslim majority J&K chose not to go with Pakistan.

And with Pakistan, how do you see the long arc of the relationship, because there are consequences in Kashmir?

When incidents like Delhi keep happening, it is difficult to imagine a normalisation of relations. And when the army chief keeps giving himself more power in Pakistan, who is India to talk with anyway? Even if I were to advocate a dialogue between the two countries, what purpose would be served by PM Modi talking to PM Shahbaz Sharif when all power rests with Rawalpindi. In creating conditions conducive for dialogue the onus doesn’t just rest on India.

You have made a distinction between restoration of statehood and special status. Do you envisage a time when the issue of special status comes back to front and centre?

Why should we assume that the situation today will persist in perpetuity?

What are the conditions under which you think this could happen?

Obviously, it’ll require a change of government in the Centre, one that is better disposed towards us.

Audience interaction

Mani Shankar Aiyar
Former Union minister

Mani Shankar Aiyar

I know Ladakh is no longer your responsibility but what do you have to say about the horrible things that are happening to Sonam Wangchuk and to the people of Ladakh?

The fact that a hitherto peaceful place was pushed to the point where in the summer they were out on the streets and setting fire to government property would tell you just how badly Ladakh has been handled. Now, Ladakh wasn’t an area that was unhappy with the changes of August 5, 2019. Kargil was silently resentful. Leh actually came out and celebrated. They believed they had got everything they wanted. Buyer’s remorse set in. But that’s another matter. The fact is that the government of India promised them far more than they have delivered. They want protection for their cultural identity, for their lands, for their jobs which they still haven’t got. So I think they have grounds for being disappointed.

The way in which Sonam Wangchuk is being treated is abysmal and this is a man who was with them, celebrating everything they did in Ladakh after August 5, 2019. To push him to the point where today he has been locked up in jail under draconian laws is terrible. I only hope that the promises made to Ladakh are kept the same way I hope that the promises made to us are.

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Vijay Dhar
Chairman, DPS, Srinagar

Vijay Dhar

Jammu and Kashmir is still struggling to have an elementary teacher training program. Secondly, what is your vision of education in the future in the next three years?

teacher training is something we are actively trying to address. The technology gap is also a reality but fortunately, with the way in which technology is becoming more accessible, cheaper and the way in which almost the entire Jammu and Kashmir is now 5G connected, it has made it easier for us to take technology into areas that were hitherto inaccessible. What would I like to see in the three-and-a-half years that I have got left is for government schools to come up to a level where parents would willingly pull their children out of private schools. And no disrespect to yours, I think it will still remain the preeminent school there. But I want parents to willingly pull their children out of private schools and put them into government schools. Today, it is the reverse. I would like to see more private participation in higher education. Today, barring one or two institutions, higher education is solely the preserve of the government. We have no private universities, hardly one or two private engineering and medical colleges. I think there is a big opportunity available to us to bring in more private sector players into education so that the field opens up.

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Prashant Solomon
Director, Chintels India Pvt Ltd

Prashant Solomon

In the next three years, which are the areas in the economy of J&K that interest you in developing the Union Territory further?

We need to focus on areas where we can have a competitive advantage. Tourism obviously puts us at an advantageous place but it is unreliable as we have seen this year. The setbacks, both at the beginning of the year and and more recently, have hit the economy hard. But we will continue to focus on pushing tourism because it is not confined to a handful of areas. Actually, the spread across J&K is enormous.

I am also acutely aware of our limitations. We are not a resource rich place. We are also not a very big market. So for me to try and attract investment into manufacturing is pointless. But there are enormous opportunities in dairy. In terms of milk production, we are almost self-sufficient. We only process about 6 per cent of our dairy production. 94 per cent of our milk goes into the market unprocessed. You just need to come in and set up the processing unit. So that would be an area we are looking at. Electronics, and linked to that, of course, would be IT parks.

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Karthik Seth
Advocate

Karthik Seth

With regard to Article 370, there was a PIL which was eventually dismissed. Though I understand the LG has to approve it but have you thought about a review? ?

Review was filed and then dismissed. We are well aware of where this will go. It will be fought in the public domain. It will be fought in the political domain. Let’s not forget that in the past, the same Supreme Court actually upheld article 370 on three separate occasions. Then, the mood changed and the views of the court changed. Possibly, going ahead, the mood will change again.

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Jatin Das
Artist

Jatin Das

I have been to Kashmir about seven or eight times. Artist Gulam Rasul Santosh started the artist camp in Ganderbal in the mid-’60s. I had attended the camp and many eminent artists from all over India had participated. I talked to your father many times regarding the idea of setting up a museum. Would you like to revive the artist camp which has been stopped for a very long time?

We would be happy to support such an initiative. I am not sure it should be purely government-driven because when it is, then these things never really take off the way they should but if there is somebody from within the artist community who is interested in starting or restarting this artists’ camp, then my government will be more than happy to throw its weight behind that for whatever logistical support and help that we can provide.

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Rajeshwari Singh
Former Research Officer (Health), NITI Aayog

Rajeshwari Singh

A few years ago, I visited Kupwara and Baramulla for an evaluation exercise. The challenges of security and last mile delivery stood out. With 8-10 districts located along the international border, what is your long-term vision for development in these districts?

The most important thing we can do to the border districts is improve their connectivity. Connectivity, both physical and communication, is poor. If both these things get addressed, last mile delivery will automatically improve. One of the reasons why last mile delivery suffers is because good people don’t want to get posted there. So these places are more often than not seen as punishment postings.

We have been working with the government of India already. A couple of tunnels have been sanctioned, one is for Tangdar Karnah. We are hoping that they will sanction one in Gurez. If we can get these areas connected 365 days a year, we will be able to address the last mile connectivity issue and of course work with mobile phone companies so that data and mobile connectivity is there. Also, we need to incentivise doctors, teachers, government officials to actually go and work in those areas.

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Anant Tiwari
Student, Hindu College, New Delhi

Anant Tiwari

Your grandfather Sheikh Abdullah pioneered Kashmir’s accession to India. In that light, what are your thoughts on everything being linked to Jawaharlal Nehru? Also, what role will Kashmir play in Centre’s vision of Viksit Bharat 2047?

Obviously, if India were to become a developed country by 2047, then J&K would also have to be developed. That said, J&K’s contribution to the size of the Indian economy is limited. We are not going to be the drivers of Viksit Bharat. Those will come from Maharashtra, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, UP, Telangana, Andhra etc. They won’t come from Himachal, J&K, Uttarakhand but we will have to play our own small role and obviously, we would like to see our development alongside the development in the rest of the country. As to blaming Nehru, it’s easy to do. He took the decisions that he thought were in the best interests of the country at that time. He laid a strong foundation on which we are alive today. It is easy to criticise people who aren’t around to defend themselves. But that’s how politics always is. When this government changes, every problem in this country will be laid at the doorstep of Prime Minister Narendra Modi. You can take it in writing from me. When things change, fault lines change too. We have to accept it.