Upto India to decide its role in resolving Gaza war: Israel’s new ambassador

This is the first time that Israel has sought New Delhi’s assistance in the construction sector, and the decision comes in the wake of the ban on Palestinian workers following the Hamas attack last October.

Asked about Israeli trade representatives flagging a skills mismatch among Indian construction workers who arrived in Israel under a bilateral scheme, as reported by The Indian Express, Azar said “any scheme that you start has mishaps at the beginning” and that both governments are working to streamline the process.

Newly appointed Israeli ambassador to India, Reuven Azar. (Express Photo)

On a possible role for India in resolving the Gaza war, Azar said: “I think India has to decide. It’s up to India to decide to what degree they want to be involved. There is an increasing role of India in West Asia in general, because India can bring a lot to the stability and prosperity in our region.

“One can help with investments, like the Adani investment in Haifa… the series of agreements that India has been working on the last year with the UAE… we are establishing the corridor of stability and prosperity in West Asia. They want to have a better future for the people. They want to invest in infrastructure and entrepreneurship, in connectivity. So everybody understands that they want to create this corridor of stability.”

Emphasising that Israel too wants to end the ongoing war, Azar said, “… we are expressing these concerns to our friends. We are listening to their concerns. India is our friend. India is defending our right to self defence. We understand that, like the United States, like other friendly countries of Israel, they would like this to be over. And believe me, we also would like this to be over.”

On Israel-India ties, Azar outlined other pillars of bilateral cooperation, apart from construction: defence and security, agriculture and water, innovation and start-ups. Looking ahead, he said cooperation on “semiconductors and cyber security” was “absolutely essential.”

On the bilateral scheme for Indian workers in Israel, Azar said, “Any scheme that you start has mishaps at the beginning, you will always hear about incidents happening, but it’s still the exception. We are both dealing with it in the particular case, and also in the general sense between the governments, to streamline it to make it work. We have great potential, and I’m sure we are going to expand… We have thought about most of the things and we should continue perfecting it.”

The Indian Express had reported that the skill mismatch resulted from an assessment process that over-promised and under-delivered when it came to workers’ abilities. Later, Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson Randhir Jaiswal had described the problems as “teething issues”, which have been “resolved” and that most Israeli companies were satisfied with Indian workers, and so were the workers.

Azar (57), who presented his credentials in New Delhi on September 6, sat down with The Indian Express for his first and exclusive interview at his office at the Israeli embassy. Edited excerpts:

Priorities as Israel’s ambassador to India

India has become one of the most important partners of Israel. Because of common heritage and values, it is a great basis for creating a robust and solid relationship. India is rising to become a world power. This allows us to both deepen and expand the areas where we are cooperating. So this relationship started off with very important cooperation in security and defence that was essential and served national security goals, it expanded to agriculture and water.

Then there is innovation. Israel is a start-up nation, we have more than 90 unicorns today providing technological solutions for the world, we can actually achieve a lot because India also has incredible hubs of innovation.

And, then there is cooperation in infrastructure. Israel is an old nation, a very young country, just like India. We have been lagging behind when it comes to developing our infrastructure, but thanks to the economic development now, we can allow ourselves to put the resources to build infrastructure. But unlike India, we don’t have all the capabilities that we need, in order to build. We want to build a 100-km metro system in the Tel Aviv area, we want to attract international companies that have the capabilities of both supplying qualitative performance and at a cheap price. India is an excellent partner, because a thousand kilometres of metro is being built, apart from roads, airports, and ports.

There are many more things that connect our people together. Many Israelis come to tour India, especially after they finish their army service. We can see that our peoples share many of the same values like vegetarianism, the appreciation of yoga, spirituality, mindfulness and many more values.

Israeli soldiers take up position next to buildings destroyed by the Israeli military in the Gaza Strip. (AP Photo)

End game to the Israel-Hamas war

What happened on October 7 was an explosion of a build-up that has been taking place, mostly in the last 15 years, an effort that has been led by Iran to arm a series of proxies in the region with sophisticated weapons.

Hezbollah, which is the most prominent proxy of Iran, the Houthis, the militias in Iraq, militias in Syria, and, of course, Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. After the Arab Spring, these forces started taking over. So today there is a situation where Beirut, Damascus, Sanaa and Gaza are basically controlled to different degrees by Iran.

Israel didn’t want to invade Gaza. We knew that the strip was becoming an increasing threat. But, we didn’t want to do a preventive war, because we thought that we could maintain stability by other means. We were surprised on October 7 on two aspects, one was an intelligence failure, and the second, it was an operational failure. But since then, what we’re trying to do is remove Hamas’ military threat in Gaza and get back the hostages.

Removing Hamas’ military threat will send a very clear message to Iran that we are cutting one of its tentacles. It’s like an octopus that has these tentacles…so if we manage to cut one tentacle… then we are sending a message that continuing with such policies might lead to the cutting of other tentacles, and that’s the importance of a total military defeat of Hamas.

It’s not easy to achieve, because Hamas has put us in this dilemma with hostages…it is also challenging because they have decided that they don’t care about the population, they want to use the most savage methods to massacre, rape, mutilate Israelis, they don’t want Israel to exist.

And they are ready to sacrifice the highest number of civilians in order to put pressure on Israel from the world to stop the war and let them survive. So Israel has been working meticulously according to international law.

We have hundreds of lawyers that are working with our forces, identifying each target and making sure that Israel uses proportionate force. It is done according to international law. And that doesn’t mean that civilians won’t die. It doesn’t mean that hospitals or schools won’t be attacked. It means that, according to international military law, once a school or hospital is used for military purposes, it loses its immunity under international law. In the last weeks, these terrorists are regrouping in a humanitarian area that was designated by Israel as a safe place.

I can assure you that Israel is acting with a legal advisory mechanism, despite Hamas using civilians as human shields. I don’t remember many countries around the world that, during a war with a terrorist organisation, are supplying massive amounts of humanitarian assistance to the population, like we are doing. We have supplied over 50,000 trucks of food to the enemy territory since the beginning of the war.

Right now, as we speak, the UN is implementing vaccination for children in Gaza. Have you ever seen any conflict in modern times in which actually one country that was attacked by a terrorist organisation or by the other country was actually supplying humanitarian assistance and allowing vaccination of the population of any territory? It is inconceivable.

A possible deal to free hostages

The challenge is that Hamas actually wants to rearm and regroup and attack Israel in future, in return for the hostages. This is something we are not going to agree on. This is a challenge that we are facing.

Hamas knew very well that it was taking hostages, because they know us very well, and they know that in Israel, the value of freeing hostages is very important in our country, and we are an army of the people. It’s a very difficult dilemma. I don’t envy our leaders that have to make those decisions regarding people’s lives. It is an important message to the world, because imagine these new malicious tactics… if they succeed, no doubt they will be used again by other radical Islamist groups in West Asia and outside.

So, a lot of people in West Asia, outside of West Asia, are following very carefully what is happening, and they are concerned. And I spoke with people in Europe, the United States, and I know that also here in India, people fear the consequences of Hamas victory, what that would mean for the civilized world.

Israel ambassador to India Reuven Azar during a chat with The Indian Express. (Express Photo)

The risk of expanding conflict

Israel doesn’t have an interest in escalating the conflict into multiple fronts, because we are concentrating on the situation in Gaza. However, that doesn’t mean that terrorists have impunity, and it doesn’t mean that Iran will not be held accountable for harbouring terrorists.

So people sometimes forget the balance between military means and diplomatic means. There is a saying that war is the continuation of diplomacy with other means. When diplomacy fails, you have violence, and diplomacy has failed to contain and to restrain Iranian aggression for years now.

Criticism and protests against Israel PM Benjamin Netanyahu

This is democracy. People are entitled to object. This is the most natural thing that you can have. Maybe people were expecting that during the time of war, people that would be less critical. Guess what? Israel has always been, always remains, a very vibrant democracy, and people have the right to protest. There are many reasons for them to protest. We are talking about life and death issues. Just because we are attacked, we’re not going to become an autocracy.

India’s nuancing of its statements on Gaza

This is something that is not actually unique to India, many of our friends, including the GCC have done that. The GCC countries are also very concerned about Iran, and the GCC countries have been cooperating with us to foil the attacks by Iran in April this year, when missiles and drones were fired. They understand the nature of the threat.

I understand why a lot of people would like the war to end. We want that, too. What will be the outcome and what will be the repercussions? So we are expressing these concerns to our friends. We are listening to their concerns. India is our friend. India is defending our right to self defence. We understand that, like the United States, like other friendly countries of Israel, they would like this to be over. And believe me, we also would like this to be over.

A possible role for India in resolving the Gaza war

I think India has to decide. It’s up to India to decide to what degree they want to be involved. There is an increasing role of India in West Asia in general, because India can bring a lot to the stability and prosperity in our region.

One can help with investments, like the Adani investment in Haifa… the series of agreements that India has been working on the last year with the UAE… we are establishing the corridor of stability and prosperity in West Asia. They want to have a better future for the people. They want to invest in infrastructure and entrepreneurship, in connectivity. So everybody understands that they want to create this corridor of stability.

And this was expressed in the G20 by President Biden and by Prime Minister (Narendra) Modi. So we see the Indian interest being merged into the interest of the pragmatic countries in the region. And this is very important. It means that India will have an increasing role in making this (corridor of stability) a reality.

The channels of communication (between India and Israel, Iran, Saudi Arabia) is always a useful thing. At the end of the day, we are not here to tell others what they should do. We are here to make friends, cooperate and to advance common interests. So we are taking into account the Indian interest, but at the end of the day, Indians will define the Indian interest.

Indian voices calling for cutting off arms supplies to Israel over charges of ethnic cleansing in Gaza

The people who are criticising us, they forget that like India, Israel is a country that has pluralism. We also have freedom of religion; Muslims, Christians, Jews live with no threat of persecution. And we have on the other side, the situation in which the ethnically cleansed areas are being controlled by these radical Islamists who do not share those values. Increasingly, the ethnically cleansed areas under radical Islamist control.

There is a deterioration of Christian population in West Asia, which was 20% of the population at the beginning of the 20th century, and now has deteriorated to less than 5%. The Jewish community that was 2700 years old in Iraq, is completely decimated, ethnically cleansed.

They are blaming us for trying to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. But, Palestinians in Jerusalem in 1967 were about 40,000, and they are 400,000 now.

I don’t know any country in the world in which ethnic cleansing took place, and the population grew by 1000%. The same goes with the Gaza Strip. In 1967, there were less than 200,000, now they are more than 2 million. So how could you call that ethnic cleansing? So this is a propaganda machinery, and there are some radical people spreading it. There are some naive people that are buying this.

Challenges facing the bilateral jobs scheme for Indian workers in Israel. The Indian Express reported last week that the scheme was hampered by a skill mismatch which resulted from an assessment process that over-promised and under-delivered when it came to workers’ abilities.

Any scheme that you start has mishaps at the beginning, you will always hear about incidents happening, but it’s still the exception. Generally speaking, we are grateful… we have the workforce for not just construction. We have plans to make it more robust and efficient. One way of doing it is through governmental agreements. Another way is doing it through the private sector.

When we talk about infrastructure, if we manage to bring Indian infrastructure companies to Israel, they can come with a workforce that is skilled. With China, we have done similar infrastructure projects in Israel, where they brought their skilled labour.

We are both dealing with it in the particular case, and also in the general sense between the governments, to streamline it to make it work. We have great potential, and I’m sure we are going to expand. We sat down very calmly to discuss these agreements, and they were meticulously made. We have thought about most of the things and we should continue perfecting it.

Future of India-Israel ties

I must admit that I have a lot to learn, both from my Israeli colleagues, but especially by my Indian hosts. This is a huge country, a lot of people are well educated, with a lot of experience that I have to learn from.

If I have to give my impression at this point, India and Israel complement each other in many ways, because India is a huge country. India has a huge economy and economics of scale. Israel is a very small country, and we can work together to make India’s rise faster and make it competitive.

Israelis are always thinking about changing the world. One of the reasons Israel had so many unicorns is because of the Jewish tradition: in our tradition we have a duty to make a difference in the world.

So, when a technological entrepreneur in Israel makes an invention, he doesn’t think about Israel. He thinks about the world. That’s why we are creating global companies and not local companies. It’s a waste of time to create a local company with a market of 10 million. We can think together with India globally.

On defence, these are things that are discussed in closed rooms when it comes to innovation. Cooperation on semiconductors, cyber security is absolutely essential and infrastructure is very important for us.