Shivraj Singh Chouhan at Idea Exchange: ‘Schemes for women aren’t freebies. We are correcting historical injustice, they now have financial freedom’

After 2014-15, our foodgrain production has increased by almost 44 per cent, from 240 million tonnes to around 352 million tonnes. Rice and wheat are abundant and there is no need for imports. But if we talk about pulses and oilseeds, we have to import quite a bit. An atmanirbhar and developed India means that we should not depend on anyone for essential foodgrains. Especially in today’s context when anyone can refuse to trade anything, anytime. Then there is the issue of climate change. The Indian Council of Agricultural Research (ICAR) is continuously carrying out research to develop climate-resilient and fortified, nutrient-rich varieties. We have tried to develop about 150 such varieties. We have to increase production significantly for which we need good seeds. Over the last decade, our scientists have succeeded in developing almost 3,000 varieties of seeds, including those of wheat, rice, pulses and oilseeds. We are trying to create digital infrastructure through satellite-based remote sensing so that the farmer can get correct information on weather and germ attacks. For example, if the farmer knows about wind direction in advance, he can know when the germ attack is headed his way and avoid damage.

Harikishan Sharma: The government had set a target of doubling farmer’s income by 2022. Have you reviewed the situation? What are the big challenges to Indian agriculture?

Both crop production and productivity have increased, the first by 44 per cent. Along with this, the government has announced Minimum Support Price (MSP). There has been record procurement. Therefore, income has definitely increased. ICAR did research on 3,000 farmers and found incomes had more than doubled for many. We also have farmers who have increased their income five to six times more. But a major problem with our farming is the size of the land — up to three acres — unlike Australia, Brazil or the US, where each farm spans 10,000-15,000 acres. Nearly 86 per cent of our farmers are small land-holders. If the crop is ruined once, they are affected. Despite this, income has increased.

The first big challenge is the availability of quality seeds, along with good pesticides and fertilisers. Second is the middleman cutting into farmers’ profits. Third is connecting modern technology from the lab to the land. What use is AI if the farmer does not know how to use it? Which is why we are educating farmers.

Harikishan Sharma: Do you think the government has a window to implement agricultural reforms?

Work on agricultural reforms is ongoing. Every farmer will now have an ID, so that all their information — the size of their land, the crop sown every year by them, their animals — is in one place. Then we can collect details of crop damage through remote sensing so that the farmer can be given the right compensation. The government has decided to bear the cost of transporting crops from the farm to city markets. We will also try to make arrangements for storage.

We have the Market Intervention Scheme (MIS) scheme, a price support mechanism for perishable and horticultural commodities not covered by the Minimum Support Price (MSP) system. We fix a certain price based on the farmer’s losses. The Central Government will pay 50 per cent of the difference and the State Government will do so for the remaining. Many states have taken advantage of it.

Nikhil Ghanekar: What do you have to say about stubble burning, which is very high in Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh now, and has a direct impact on air pollution?

There has been a significant reduction of stubble burning in Punjab and Haryana. We have given shredder machines on subsidy. Ransih Kalan village in Moga district of Punjab has not been burning stubble for 11 years and its farmers are also educating others in surrounding villages. The use of chemical fertilisers has been reduced by 30 per cent as the soil has become more fertile due to mixing of stubble with it. Many people are buying stubble to make biomass. Stubble burning has gone up in Madhya Pradesh because more land has been brought under paddy cultivation. We are educating farmers there too.

Vikas Pathak: Why is there a delay in electing the BJP president?

The party has been in election mode because of constant Assembly elections and we haven’t got a chance to think about anything else. That’s why, every four months, we have to prepare for the next elections. I believe that one of the major obstacles in this country’s progress and development is the continuous cycle of elections. For example, in the last two years, Assembly elections were held in Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan. Four months later, Lok Sabha elections were held. Haryana, Jharkhand, Jammu and Kashmir, Maharashtra elections followed. When those finished, we had to gear up for Delhi. When that got over, there was Bihar. Now, the fatigue of Bihar is not yet over and we are heading towards Bengal. That’s why it’s time to consider “One Nation One Election.” If Lok Sabha and Assembly elections are held simultaneously once every five years, there will be a good chance to serve the country, pursue progress, development and public welfare peacefully for at least four-and-a-half years.

Jatin Anand: Recently, you were in Bhopal and said that you had expected to be Chief Minister again in 2023. But then you decided to accept the organisation’s decision and moved to Delhi. What was the need for this explanation after two years?

First of all, I didn’t say that it was my expectation. People were making assumptions about it. I was giving a speech to motivate people on how one should live their life. One should not complain about what they have not got. I talked about how people thought that I would become the CM, but when the decision was taken, truly, I felt like it was a test for me, to see if I behaved appropriately as a karyakarta (worker). I am also proud to say that the BJP made me an MP and MLA six times. It made me Chief Minister four times. If I keep complaining even after these milestones, then I think it would be my great misfortune. Sometimes roles change in life.

Union Agriculture and Farmers Welfare Minister Shivraj Singh Chouhan. (Express photo by Tashi Tobgyal)

Deeptiman Tiwary: Over the last two years, the incumbent BJP governments in states have launched a cash benefit scheme for women six months before an election and gone on to win massive victories. Nitish Kumar was Bihar Chief Minister for 20 years and was facing anti-incumbency. Then he put Rs 10,000 in the bank accounts of women, resulting in a landslide victory. Empowerment or poll sop?

I want to draw your attention to a historical injustice. Women also have a right to the resources of this earth. But the male-dominated society kept them confined to the home for years and did not give them a chance to live a normal life. I introduced the Ladli Lakshmi Yojana in Madhya Pradesh in 2007, during which I realised that society would not let a daughter be born till it considers her a burden. The sex ratio in the state had also deteriorated, with 900 daughters being born per 1,000 sons. So, I thought that the birth of a daughter should become a boon, not a burden. By creating the Ladli Lakshmi Yojana, we incentivised girl child education by grading deposits depending on enrolment at schools and higher education institutions. A final payment of Rs 1 lakh was made when the girl child turned 21 and had completed her education.

This scheme arose from the pain of seeing mothers differentiating between a son and a daughter. After that, we gave 50 per cent reservation to women in our local body elections. But Nitishji’s (Bihar Chief Minister) efforts were more publicised, even though we did it first. We were also the first to distribute bicycles, provide maternity support to unorganised sector workers, which again entitled the woman to cash benefits, from prenatal check-ups to birth of the child. We then announced a concession on registration fee for anyone who bought property in the name of the woman in their family — wife, daughter, or sister. The Ladli Behna Yojana was all about women’s self-respect and self-esteem. Many of them used that money to start their own business, bought a sewing machine or set up vegetable shops.

Do not consider these schemes as freebies. Women were suppressed and deprived of their rights, and when they got the financial freedom to do what they wanted, it increased their self-respect. So, they voted for the party that understood their self-respect and gave them an assured source of income. In a state like Madhya Pradesh, where the budget is Rs 4 lakh crore, giving Rs 16,000 crore to half the population and empowering them is not freebie, it is justice for half the population.

Liz Mathew: We have heard that your name is in the race for party president. Has there been any discussion with party leaders or the RSS in this respect?

Nobody has ever spoken to me on this subject. I just keep hearing it. Let me reiterate that I am a karyakarta (worker) who believes in doing the task at hand with complete honesty and hard work. Because the biggest contribution that I can make is to improve the work that I am doing at the moment, which is to improve the lot of farmers, make my sisters financially independent and ensure rural development.

Liz Mathew: What differences do you see between the BJP under the leadership of Atal Bihari Vajpayee and L K Advani and today’s BJP?

The BJP is neither old nor new. It is still the same. I had the fortune to work under the leadership of Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji and L K Advaniji. Both of them did whatever was necessary for the BJP and the country at that time. And today I have the fortune to work under the leadership of Modiji, who I think is a boon for India. The work being done under his leadership for a glorious, proud, prosperous, rich, developed and self-reliant India is truly amazing.

Liz Mathew: There was a time when the BJP parliamentary board met frequently and took decisions. It hardly meets now; the old leaders aren’t in it. The decisions flow from the top, which some BJP workers are themselves calling a high command culture. You have an open-door policy for defectors. Are we seeing a ‘Congressisation of the BJP?’

First, the parliamentary board meets when there is a need for it and all important decisions are still taken by it. Why should old faces remain, new people should come in. That should keep happening in all political parties. I believe no party is more democratic than the BJP. Every decision is discussed and debated. BJP is the only party whose booth units meet every month and are one of our biggest strengths. Which political party in India has booth workers meeting every month? We have district and block meetings, where programmes are decided and work is done to implement them. BJP cadres keep working on one programme after another, it is a dynamic entity. The Congress can neither decide its district presidency or the state presidency.

Harish Damodaran: When you were CM, you started the Bhavantar Bhugtan Yojana (Price Difference Payment Scheme) so that the price difference goes to the farmer. If you look at soybean, it is currently selling at Rs 4,200-4300 per quintal, which is not just less than this year’s MSP but also last year’s MSP. Can’t your old scheme be revived at the Centre?

Soybean is being procured in Madhya Pradesh under the Bhavantar Bhugtan Yojana. A model rate is fixed and the difference between the crop’s MSP and the rate at which it is sold is put into the farmer’s account. But it depends on which state wants to adopt this scheme. We have decided to buy arhar, masoor (lentil), urad (black gram) from registered farmers at MSP.

Vineet Bhalla: What was the inside story of Jyotiraditya Scindia joining the BJP in 2020?

Nothing was inside, everything was outside. In 2020, Scindiaji broke away with his associates, everyone knows about that. The Congress could not even manage its own flock. The problem is that its leaders neither understand party organisation nor the ways to run it. Today, the situation has become so pathetic that whoever the Congress joins hands with, loses. The Congress needs to understand how to manage the organisation, how to take people along and what issues to raise. Was the SIR (Special Intensive Revision of Electoral Rolls) an issue in the Bihar elections? Who will refuse a corrected voters’ list? What do people have to do with this? If we say that infiltrators should go out, who among the citizens of India can object?

But leaving aside other issues, they went after “vote chori.” Even after the Bihar defeat, they are saying they will rally around this plank. If you don’t raise the public issues properly, how will the public support you?

P Vaidyanathan Iyer: When the farm laws came in 2020, there was a demand for giving legal guarantee to MSP. Given that it can mitigate price risks, what are the hurdles in implementation?

First, I would like to tell you that we can buy 100 per cent of wheat and whatever the farmer wants to sell. However, what the farmer wants to sell depends on his preferences. Some he keeps for consumption, some for the open market where he gets a better price. For example, Sarbati wheat from Madhya Pradesh sells for Rs 4,000 per quintal, so he will not sell it at MSP. We buy the entire rice crop. Sugarcane is sold only at fair and remunerative prices declared by the government. We guarantee 100 per cent purchase for masoor (lentil), tur (pigeon pea) and urad (black gram). For crops like soybean, there is the Bhavantar Bhugtan (Price Difference Payment). So the farmer has the option to take the MSP price.

Of course, implementation depends on the jurisdiction of the state. The Modi government has decided to declare MSP by setting a 50 per cent profit on the cost (A2+FL or actual paid out and family labour cost). It has made arrangements for purchase. We are trying our best to offer better prices. The Kisan Samman Nidhi (PM-Kisan), loans of over Rs 10 lakh through Kisan Credit Cards (KCC) are currently being given to farmers to bring down the cost of production. Fertiliser subsidies have crossed Rs 2 lakh crore.

Anil Sasi: Fertiliser subsidies go to companies. Are you exploring any provision to give them directly to farmers through DBT (Direct Benefit Transfer) and Aadhaar?

This is a matter for consideration. As I said, we are creating IDs for farmers. Before this, the details of the farmers, meaning the map of their land, their ownership rights were not completely clear. After the farmer ID is created, we will get all the information we need at a click. But in such a large country, building consensus is necessary. Then States are autonomous, they make decisions that they deem fit. But this is definitely a matter for consideration.