Kanhaiya Kumar at Idea Exchange: ‘In the Opposition, you will see a reluctance to protect their base vote’

Talking specifically about my active political role, I joined AISF during my Plus Two. I wasn’t very aware of ideologies but the place I come from is politically quite active. Begusarai was called ‘Mini Moscow’ because the CPI continuously won in our home constituency for 50 years. There were also many factories, so slogans of labour movements were common.

When I went to college, I didn’t understand politics and since I wasn’t very good at protesting, the AISF gave me work that suited me, which was to organise film screenings every Friday. I then came to Delhi to prepare for UPSC. I didn’t come to JNU to do politics. I always say this: being part of politics in JNU was by chance, being in the Congress is by choice and being against the BJP is by choice.

In JNU, we were student activists, people elected me because they felt like. The government arrested me because they felt like. This was by chance. After being released from jail, I continued to fight. To advance that fight, I need the support of Rahul Gandhi and his party. This is by choice.

So you can say my journey in electoral politics started from JNU. I lost two elections in JNU first, then won one. I’ve also lost two elections now, let’s see when will I win one.

Asad Rehman: What should be the Opposition’s strategy regarding the Special Intensive Revision (SIR) of electoral rolls in Bihar, especially since the Congress is opposing it?

This issue is both political and legal, so it should be fought in both ways. The Opposition has filed a petition in the Supreme Court and is also protesting on the streets. This is the first time in 11 years that the Election Commission (EC) has admitted it made a mistake. They haven’t issued a statement but they have been forced to acknowledge that a mistake occurred and that there is a discrepancy in the voter list. They are planting news that people from Bangladesh, Nepal and Myanmar have been found in Bihar.

The other dangerous aspect is that the EC is not handling its own responsibilities; it is taking on responsibilities of other departments. Verifying citizenship is not the job of the EC, it is the job of the Ministry of Home Affairs. The EC’s job is to identify voters and include their names in the voter list. It must accept any certificate issued by the government.

We are not saying don’t correct the voter list but the Chief Election Commissioner himself should also be corrected. The whole question is about transparency, integrity and intention. The government has eliminated the role of the Supreme Court in the appointment of the Chief Election Commissioner. Now only three people will choose: the Prime Minister, Home Minister and Leader of the Opposition. When the election is always by majority, the government will have an influence. Now, it is up to the EC to save its integrity. They should not work in a hurry with this three-month timeline. If you want to correct the voter list, do it thoroughly.

On SIR of Electoral Rolls |  The EC must first admit that there was a discrepancy in the voter list… Don’t create more discrepancies while fixing the existing ones. Take your time. Prepare the voter list, don’t start doing the NRC instead

There is a specific kind of problem in Bihar. It’s related to birth certificates and caste certificates. No one has a genuine birth certificate. When we talk about caste certificates, not a single person from the general community gets a caste certificate made. It is only the SC, ST, OBC who make caste certificates, but now that process is also so lengthy that people in Bihar don’t want to take government benefits.

Does the EC know Bihar’s actual population? The last census was in 2011. The EC must first admit that there was a discrepancy in the voter list… Don’t create more discrepancies while fixing the existing ones. Take your time. Prepare the voter list, don’t start doing the NRC instead.

‘Talking specifically about my active political role, I joined AISF during my Plus Two. I wasn’t very aware of ideologies but the place I come from is politically quite active’

Asad Rehman: Several Congress leaders are concerned that in Bihar the INDIA Alliance and Congress have been unable to attract other communities beyond Muslims and Yadavs. There are also concerns regarding over-reliance on the Rashtriya Janata Dal (RJD). What is your opinion?

It’s not entirely correct but it’s not entirely wrong either. It’s not entirely correct because we are trying. The first guarantee we have launched is Mai Bahin Maan Yojana. It is for poor women from all communities — Muslims, Yadavs, Brahmins, Dalits, other backward classes. We are reaching out to every section of society and our guarantees will be for all communities.

What you said is not entirely wrong because many leaders are entirely dependent on their base vote — I don’t know what difficulty the Opposition has in accepting this.

About the SIR issue in Bihar, in Patna they started accepting Aadhaar before the Supreme Court’s direction. In Seemanchal, they were not accepting it. BJP protects its base vote. However, in the Opposition you will see a reluctance to protect their base vote. Will the BJP not keep saying Hindu-Muslim? BJP will do whatever benefits them. We won’t make our strategy according to the BJP but our strategy is that the Congress is a party for everyone… We should protect our base vote and expand it. I disagree that there is dependence on RJD. In the chemistry of politics, a lot depends on the proportion of many things and the Congress must play its role. Other than the RJD, which has a base vote that is the same as the general base vote of the Opposition, the Congress party’s job is to bring other people along. Teamwork is important.

Manoj CG: In the 2024 Lok Sabha election, Congress could only win 99 seats. Since you have come to the party from outside, I wanted to ask, where do you see it failing?

I was one of the biggest critics of the Congress when I was in university, especially of the Manmohan Singh government. I used to think that things were getting worse. But when PM Modi came, I thought, ‘No, abhi toh party shuru hui hai (the party has just begun); a lot more is yet to happen to us.’

That’s when my perspective changed. My training is from the Left, so I first look at the economy. I realised that both neoliberalisms are not the same. There is a difference between the neoliberalism of the Congress and that of the BJP.

I was observing what was wrong from earlier, but I came to the party because of what is right. One of that is Rahul Gandhi’s integrity. Even if speaking the truth leads to immediate electoral loss, it should still be spoken. So when he made a major attack on the BJP at the policy level, whether it was the Rafale issue or the Adani matter, he would speak but many other leaders wouldn’t. This situation still exists. So it is very important to convey what is being said at the top to the rank-and-file at the grassroots. Seva Dal, Youth Congress, Mahila Congress, NSUI should work as a mass front.

‘I was one of the biggest critics of the Congress when I was in university, especially of the Manmohan Singh government. I used to think that things were getting worse’

The Congress has brought a big policy-level change with the appointment of district presidents and their direct communication with the party leadership… We want to build an organised team of ideological people at the polling stations.

Jatin Anand: You have contested two high-profile Lok Sabha elections, one against Giriraj Singh in Begusarai and the other in Delhi, against Manoj Tiwari. Did you try to assess why you didn’t win either?

Both elections were different, so the ways of contesting them were different. I fought this one entirely in an urban demography and that one was rural demography. In Delhi, I’m just a Bihari, but in Bihar I am known by my caste. The timing is also important. When I contested that election, I had just been awarded my PhD in 2018. I had come out of university and was fighting from a Left party, so its content was a bit different. When I was contesting the Delhi election, I was fighting in an urban area in 2024. The content of that election was different. But the intent was one: to defeat the BJP. I was contesting against heavyweight candidates both the times, and on both occasions Modiji came to
my constituency.

On Over-dependence of the congress on RJD in Bihar | I disagree… Other than the RJD, which has a base vote that is the same as the general base vote of the Opposition, the Congress party’s job is to bring other people along

Jatin Anand: Many parties in the INDIA Alliance feel it is the responsibility of the Congress to take it forward. What is your view?

It is true that the Congress party is a large Opposition party, so it has the responsibility of keeping everyone together. But this is one aspect. The other aspect is that everyone has their own interests.

Deeptiman Tiwary: Student activist Umar Khalid has been in jail for almost five years. Why is no political party protesting? Why is no one speaking about him? It seems everyone has abandoned him.

These allegations are false. He has not been abandoned. There are people who care for him, his family members — they are continuously raising the issue in every possible way. Along with Umar, many others are imprisoned. There are many whose names no one even mentions. For example, no one mentions Meeran (Meeran Haider), and he was the president of RJD’s youth wing in Delhi.

Umar and I were together in university but we were never in the same party… Regarding this specific case, I have openly said everywhere that this is a very dangerous conspiracy of this government, not against any individual but fundamentally against democracy. The aim is to scare you so much and make you a symbol so that no one else dares to speak up.

Deeptiman Tiwary: You left the Left camp and said that Congress was your choice.

I haven’t left the camp, I left the party. Just because I have changed my party doesn’t mean I have changed my ideology.

Liz Mathew: Many Congress MPs feel that Rahul Gandhi does not take up issues that resonate with people. What is your view?

There isn’t any problem here. If we attack the root cause, it is a good thing because there are many people who talk about superficial things. They don’t talk about the root cause because there is danger in that. They may have to incur heavy losses. If we say that people aren’t getting facilities at the airport, then who has the proprietary rights to the airport? Who decides the policy regarding how the management behaves with the consumers? I agree that this is complex communication and transactional things are understood more easily, but it’s important (to ask) who is the policy being made for, how is it affecting the public sector and the general public.

Liz Mathew: Several politicians have left the Congress while others have criticised the party and some have been critical of the leadership. The latest is Shashi Tharoor, who is extremely popular. What do you think about his recent rifts with the party leadership?

I was a Left party member and if anyone spoke outside the party forum, they were removed. They expelled veteran leaders such as Somnath Chatterjee, PC Joshi. Now I am in the Congress and the party has a certain beauty that you can continue to be in the party even if you say anything against the Gandhis. There is that much freedom.

Second, yes, he (Tharoor) is popular, no doubt. That is why Modiji has sent him instead of his own leaders. Thirdly, whether he will leave the party or not is his decision. I would want him to stay. Apart from him, the people who have left, that is their call.

Vikas Pathak: Since Rahul Gandhi emerged as the face of the Congress over a decade ago, should the blame for the party’s decline rest on him or on the party workers for not having taken his message to the people?

I am against the politics of faces. Politics of faces is the bankruptcy of this era, both ideologically and theoretically. Who is considered a leader? The one who wins elections, who distributes tickets, or the one who neither wins elections nor distributes tickets, yet their poster is put up? This is a very complex question in today’s era for the Congress party. It was a party born out of struggles, it remained in power for a very long time, and due to that, many problems naturally arise in any party… My belief is that not being able to convey that message — one with which the Congress party was formed and grew — to the grassroots is a very big reason. If that message had continued to reach through action, not speeches, then this situation would not have emerged.

On Congress’ Responsibility in INDIA Alliance | Congress is a large Opposition party, so it has the responsibility of keeping everyone together. But this is one aspect. The other aspect is that everyone has their own interests

Muzamil Jaleel: The Congress can have an alliance with the Shiv Sena but not (Asaduddin) Owaisi. The party clearly hesitates to speak on Muslim issues. Would you agree?

I think one should avoid putting Thackeray on one side and Owaisi on the other because I have never heard Owaisi say that he wants to make India an Islamic nation. This is the effect of that repeated lie that now we too are saying what the BJP wants to hear. If we do this, we will ultimately lose the battle for citizenship in this country and the Congress should avoid this dichotomy. And it tries to avoid it.

For us, saving every citizen is important. The idea of India should be clear: that no person living in this country shall be discriminated against based on their identity. To protect that idea of India, whoever becomes an ally, we take them along. It doesn’t mean that we have complete ideological similarity with the political party with whom we are forming an electoral alliance.

Saman Husain: During the North-East Delhi election campaign, I followed all your public speeches closely. You spoke about a larger sense of unity that you would want in the country and the prevailing communal disharmony but there was no direct mention of the 2020 Delhi riots. North-East Delhi was hit badly by communal riots. What do you have to say about this?

Maybe you missed some speeches. Or sometimes what happens is that we only hear what we want to hear, or what we are able to hear. Perception is so powerful that it even impacts hearing power. I myself don’t remember how much I spoke. But my entire fight is against rioters. So, how can I not speak against the riots?

Asad Rehman: But did you talk about the riots in your campaign?

Obviously, I did, I must have. I have been talking about the same thing for 10 years.

Saman Husain: You spoke about the prevailing disharmony and a larger idea of secularism that all Congress leaders talk about but you hardly made any direct mention of the Delhi riots.

It is not like that. If you think so, then it is your opinion but I have been defying it, denying it. This is how perception is built… If you assert yourself as a Muslim, then you will assert me as Hindu as a byproduct… I am a very straightforward and direct person. I am saying that when we talk about harmony, is it not against rioters? If we have been speaking for so long, have we been speaking in favour of the BJP?

Aakash Joshi: In the Congress, unlike the BJP or Left parties, ideological clarity is tough — it has many leaders who speak in many voices. How do you think this should be addressed?

First of all, when we talk about ideological integrity or ideological communication, it’s not that parties with the same ideology haven’t split. Several cadre-based, ideologically driven parties have split in the past. This is the first time in India that right-wing ideology has come to power in this way. They haven’t split up yet, but it’s not that they won’t. Congress is a bit different in this matter. Here, people with different ideological connotations also stay in one party.